Feedback on the payment system.

Because it will make people cut down on making bad games.

True, although I don't think many people have done much with it yet.


cue dramatic music
But that will all change soon...
thunder cracks

Nonoba Prizeplay API?

The problem with gifts is that it attracts camwhores, and the problem with contests is that they attract cheaters. As soon as money enters the game, you have to be a lot more careful about what you do, than when it's just for fun and giggles.

I am attempting to put the payments API into my new game, Pede Off. More as an experiment to see how it goes than greed, since the entire game is completely free.
In fact I am writing a new special game mode just for nonoba that will cost users who want to play it. I might get nothing for it, I might get some money, I might get lots - that is why it is an experiment. Currently I have zero anticipation of anything!
I'll let everyone know how the experiment goes once I get things working. As I'm away next week don't expect to see anything for a while, but since the game is fully playable with noboba high scores now as it is on the internet, it's no loss for anyone if these features don't appear for a while.
Nick

Pede off has 4 modes and out of all of them,only timed mode is free!
I definitely would not call this completely free...
And who would ever get the idea of making people pay for games anyway?I mean,no other large gaming site has a payment system!
In a way,developers that use the payment system are in a way,forcing people to pay just for an internet game!Even if the game was a very popular one but had a payment in the middle of it,just where you almost get to fight some kind of boss,it would slightly ruin the quality of the game.Many people seem to be against the payment and if too many people complain,nonoba will have to remove the payment system.

And if this ever happens,my pity to all developers.

I really hate making Zombie Threads (Get it? lol) but I had a question, and I did not want to start a new one... And I couldn't decide which is better...

I figure I hate Useless new threads more than really old ones. So here goes.

Question: How do developers get money from the coins?

Like, if I were to develop a game, and just add a "donation box"of some sort... and it turned out that people were generous, and my game was awesome... what would I do with a big stack of coins?

http://nonoba.com/developers/payment/faq

70% of what the Nonoba coins are worth go to your PayPal account.

Thanks, I checked their FAQ right after I had made that post, an I found that you just request after you have at least 50$ of coins.

KK, thanks, and sorry for bringing the hread back.

Thanks, I checked their FAQ right after I had made that post, an I found that you just request after you have at least 50$ of coins.

KK, thanks, and sorry for bringing the hread back.

Dear Mr. Henrik;

Here's a few ideas...

Create a switchback in the payment system so developers can design their game to allow players to earn back some of the money they spend. There are a number of potential problems of course, but the developers who are sharp enough will just need to stay on top of things...which could be fairly easy, provided the system is designed well. "Player Rewards" as implemented by the developers would draw players, wouldn't it?

And players would feel better about buying items if they could turn around and sell them, either when they have finished using them or brand new if they later decide not to use them. It could be really simple, say auctions, or the players can only sell the items back to the developer/game owner(for, say, 80-100% $$$ value returned for unused items, and the possibility of devaluation based on item usage).

Seems as if developers could even offer One-time or Limited Edition items and levels, either to every player who plays the game, or only until the single item/level is either purchased by the one person or bought out of its limited stock. The player(s) who buy(s) such (an) item(s) can then pass it/them along to (a) friend(s), and those who purchase levels can share them with a limited number of friends, or perhaps purchase extra copies at a very discounted rate to give away to whom they want, even sell them.

I know it will take a lot more work for you, Mr. Henrik, but if the players can get unique pirks and are offered the opportunity to either break even or earn back a certain percentage of what they spend - at the developers' discretion or yours - then seems as if player concerns about payment would be alleviated considerably and a good deal more casual players might even join up as members here.

A sort of gaming club/cult movement flavor might be a good thing to aim for. The players get all the options and can still have the fun. The developers have more options too and can decide for themselves what sort of financial nature - if any - they want for their games and how they intergrate it. And whether they want their passion for Flash game development to just be a hobby...or a career.

Options and possibilities, both for the players and the developers. That is obviously what you want for Nonoba, and weither you can afford to take such steps as I suggest above soon or only in the future, I feel they would be steps in the right direction. Speaking personally, I would need you to take them, as I am not currently - and doubtful I ever shall be - an actual developer, but I am full of concepts and intent on financially backing a development or two and I feel certain their success will ride on weither or not you can implement some or all of the abovementioned ideas which concern the financial potential of Flash games hosted here on Nonoba. Because I don't much like asking Flash developers to work for nothing on ideas my own, and I doubt in general my chances of finding one of experience who is willing to do so....

Yours,
OutRigged

Wouldn't this lead to camwhores and the like?

I note that you are asking?

I don't know. I did use the term "idea"...

EDIT: Seperated Unity has explained to me what a "camwhore" is... He mentioned a currency/trade system was shot down by Henrik. I know I don't understand all the ins and outs and I AM having trouble wrapping my mind around the problems and possible solutions...

I think I see some of the issues, but there has to be a clever way around them... Well, just make sure that the items and other things changing hands always involve money, and that the sums are reasonable, either in the eyes of Admins/Henrik or in the eyes of the selling developer/originator of the items and such. Put price caps on stuff. Or simply design the system so that cash/refunds on any items or extra features or whatever, just changes hands once. Camwhores are in business for the money, right? And the problem with general currency is that it goes around too much, right? So make sellers and buyers register first, or set up the selling as public auctions.

It certainly is an interesting problem. I invite anyone to Message me to discuss it and help me try to concept some possible solutions. Just title your Message "Camwhore Issue"...

EDIT: Okay, just institute a "Player Rewards" feature for the developers to use. Players who buy Nonoba Coins can cash them back in to Nonoba at a 30% loss/fee, right? So enable the developers - and the developers alone - to kick back whatever percent of a player's coins they want. The developers can simply attach a Coin value to the achievements they create for their games. And even those developers who don't charge coins for anything in their games, can offer coin rewards for playing their games to draw players, if they want - on the understanding that the coins available to win and cash in(or use elsewhere to play) are limited and it's "first to play and win, is served"...

As to Items, it would be nice if they could also be sold back to the developer, if unused, or even used. The Data API saves(or can) bought Items too, right?

And here's a biggie. The Data API is general and available to all players if a developer calls upon it for his game(s), right? Well, make storage spaces available to each member/player individually, for a reasonable cost, and allow the players to decide what they want to save into it. I realize the developers still have to enable the various features of their game(s) that they desire to be saved, but it seems like player access to their saved Flash games and elements from, say, their profile page or a protected layer below it, is just handy. I don't now, but I expect the Data API currently saves all games a player is in the middle of - where developers use the Data API - or just one at a time, right? Well, allowing players to organize their own Data Space and clean it up as they deem needs be, seems more to the point. And a timetrigger on Data Spaces can be implemented too, so that inactive accounts are purged of their Data Space after a 1-3 month lapse, that way inactive accounts with Personal Data Space won't weigh too heavily on the Nonoba Data system.

I speak of personal Data Spaces unique to each player, because it is something of a necessity for my gaming concept. I want my players to have a personal space - in the form of a "garage" - where they can store their weapons, ammunition, gear, control systems and vehicles, someplace where they can let others in with a special code, and from which they can sell their special Items and various other things back to me if they desire. Oh, and somewhere to launch privately hosted games from - though perhaps in conjunction with the developer, depending on the nature of the game and the rights offered... See, I want to be able to sell unique tracks/levels to players/members, which they alone can use or host multiplays on/from, either for free or for an entry fee. I, personally, have advertised and scheduled events in mind, probably weekends and some only once yearly or bi-annually, perhaps overseen by a Nonoba Admin - regarding entrants and coin exchanges for fees - or organized and officiated by the developer in question and/or his partners.

I figure, to negate "camwhoring", the developers will be like dealers, conducting their business only with serious players and set up to reclaim the goods - and discontinue the "services" - that only they offer, for a refund to only the original buyer...which is a default if there is no provision for the buyers to pass their Items and such on to anyone but back to the "dealer". Heck, you can even set it up so the developers can appoint a single dealer to handle their goods, perhaps Nonoba as that dealer and intermediary. Members can even bid on the right to deal for a developer, thereby raising an initial sum for the developer to use while allowing the winning dealer to make back his initial investment in the dealing rights, with a Nonoba limited profit margin, say, 30%. And once a dealer makes his profit margin, he retires and the developer auctions the dealing rights of again to someone else. And as long as Nonoba gets its cut of the action in the end, everyone is happy, right? thunder cracks Except Henrik and co...

OutRigged, we are fully aware of the benefits of allowing players to win money through games, and we agree, it would be fantastic if we could lower the barriers of entry so that more people could make such games, and with us getting a cut of the transactions.

However, as soon as you allow money to be paid out to players, you enter the legal quagmire of gambling and lottery. Even though all games would have to be approved by us, we do not have the capability to judge if a specific game is ok, or if it violates the gambling laws or lottery laws of some country, or if we're not being diligent enough in stopping money laundering.

Apart from various laws, we also have contracts with our payment providers that prohibit various services, and if any of them think that what we do violates those, they'll cut us off immediately.

Finally, if we somehow manage to avoid criminal offenses and keep our providers, we still have to deal with the users who will want to cheat and abuse the system for personal gain.

All in all, the risk associated with allowing players to get money from Nonoba is way too large compared to the benefits, we can't do it no matter how much we want to.

Generally, a lot of your ideas are cool, and it should be possible to implement limited edition items, and trading of those items between players using the existing APIs. It's just that any sort of cashback to players is out of the question.